Revival is happening.
I watched a bit of the Lakeland Revival this morning. Click here to watch more. I saw Todd Bentley preach and teach a bit and I have to say that I was impressed. I have never doubted what is happening in Lakeland. I have had doubts about Bentley in terms of exaggerating when it is not necessary. I've also had some concerns about some reports of the angelic experiences he has had. (In particular about the book of hebrews...) I have also wondered how much glory Jesus is getting, and the call to repentance or lack thereof.
This morning he preached Jesus. Jesus crucified. He preached that we preach with a demonstration of the Spirits power. Heres a bit I tried to write down, not quite word for word...
"I'm not getting anointed to heal. Jesus was about changing the atmosphere, demonstrating the Kingdom He is bringing. Thats why He said, "Your Kingdom come." When you pray, pray that it would be heaven on Earth, Get heaven to show up. When you pray pray that the Kingdom of heaven would show up." He continued to say that we need to show people the Kingdom!
I still have questions, but he definitely preached the gospel, definitely called for repentance, and definitely gave all the glory to God!
Also, he says has heaps of documented healings and they're asking everyone who has been healed to go to the doctor and get a written report. He then told everyone that he will give the documents to any major media station that ask for them.
click here for news articles on the Florida outpouring (theres quite alot!)
click here for some questions and answers about the outpouring (i have only peeked at this so far but it does cover a few issues...)
Also, Catch the Fire revival in Hallam is still going. I'm taking people, if you want to come let me know! Lets position ourself where God is showing up in really cool powerful ways which are demonstrating the Kingdom of God!
Saturday, June 21, 2008
REVIVAL
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3 comments:
James,
You seem very certain in your beliefs. What convinces you that Christianity is the one true religion?
Clint
"Some people desire Scripture for every manifestation of God - for every detail of every God-given, Holy Spirit inspired vision, dream, encounter, or demonstration of the supernatural realm of God manifested on the earth. While I firmly believe that we're to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I don't believe we're to defend divine manifestations of God, because they are proof within themselves of the Gospel, wherever the Word of God is sent forth. Discern yes, but defend, no. Consider that many of the "greater" things that Christ said we would do hadn't even been done yet and weren't recorded in the Bible." Todd bentley
This goes to the root of the matter and on the basis here I would agree - it is the outworking that I would have problem with. Everything that is happening in Lakeland, and none of it is new or really fresh because it is a continuing of Toronto, Brownsville, etc., is assumed to be of God and thus we don't defend but we discern it is right and so we accept it. As we mentioned at the beginning of the article, we are to discern all things, including miracles. This means too that we must discern the power of the man that is being used for these miracles.
Time and time again in the letter we are told that it is right to discern, it is right to test the spirits, but... The letter seems to say yes do check things out but every time there is a 'but' and a qualification of how to test and what to test. And in each case we are left with the conclusion if it is in Todd's meetings it is obviously of God and so why are you testing it. Please see this is wrong and we must test, where is this coming from and where is it leading? A further qualification is made with this statement:
"To apply doctrine to the response of God in our lives is wrong. For someone to assume that something that happens to us isn't of God because it's not in his or her doctrine or knowledge of Jesus is, in my opinion, to grieve the precious Holy Spirit." Todd Bentley
This again does not go far enough - where does my doctrine come from? If it is not in my doctrine because the very principle or act is not within the Word of God and indeed is shown by the Word of God to be wrong then I should allow this doctrine to restrict what I do and receive. Please note the Biblical exhortations:
Ephesians 4:14 - don't be tossed about by every wind of doctrine.
1 Timothy 4:6 - sound doctrine is equated with being a good servant.
1 Timothy 6:3, 4 - don't listen to anyone who brings a different doctrine
2 Timothy 4:3 - people who do not endure sound doctrine are very shallow.
Titus 1:9 - use sound doctrine to refute those who contradict
Titus 2:1 - speak out sound doctrine
Titus 2:7-10 - be an example by using sound doctrine
"The Bible is full of visions, encounters, signs, wonders, miracles, and manifestations that people have experienced, some of which may be downright hard for many to wrap their minds around, let alone believe it could happen today. Again, it's all relative to each individual, their experiences, and backgrounds, and with what they have learned through intimacy with Christ Jesus, and what they have received as a love response from God. I spend hours and hours at the feet of Jesus and perhaps the next person doesn't." Todd Bentley
I agree there are some things that appear weird in Scripture but they never go against the revealed will, character and purpose of God. It is not that things that are happening are weird but they are just not showing forth the character and purpose of God - that is what makes them wrong, not that they may appear weird to my mind
One of the loudest criticisms has been over Angel Emma and of this Todd says:
"Emma appeared to me in angelic form appearing feminine, which is not to say Emma was female or had a gender. This was the first angel I'd ever seen in feminine-like form, in this motherly nurturing type of persona that opened up a well of healings and breakthrough." Todd Bentley
Angels are the servants of God and they cannot do anything on their own initiative. Therefore, if anything happened, it was not the angel that did but God. This type of description and what we noted Bob Jones said early on seems to go against the very nature and work of angels in Scripture. For instance, he mentions Mary in the next paragraph but look at the Scriptures in Luke 1:26-38. The angel did come with a message to her but please note verse 35 - it was the Holy Spirit that brought it to pass. Note, too, what Peter says in Acts 12:11 - it was the Lord that sent forth the angel!
"Mary, Paul, Peter, Jesus, the shepherds, and several disciples, and many Old Testament folk like Abraham, Hagar, Daniel, and others had angelic encounters and some interacted with them in conversation. That doesn't suppose they worshiped these angelic beings or sought them out for revelation apart from God. I never summon angels directly." Todd Bentley
Yes within the 1000s of years that the Scripture record covers there were a number of angelic visitations - maybe 1 every 250 years? Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that these visitations will increase and that angels will take on a new role that is not identified in Scripture. We are told in Hebrews that we might entertain angels UNAWARES. These visitations are not those, because whether dressed as a man, woman or neutral, Todd KNOWS it is an angel. What then about the other Scripture in Hebrews 1:13-14?
"But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet'? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?" Todd Bentely
First, we need to note that this stamen is placed in the context of the whole of Hebrews 1 which shows that Jesus is greater than the angels, and so there is no question that they are going to take over His responsibilities. Indeed the whole context is that Christ is so much better than the angels and so we should not be centring on them but on Jesus.
Second, please note that this verse does not say that the angels will appear and bring messages but that they will minister to and render service for those who are going to receive the fullness of their salvation. There is nothing in this verse that can allow you to make a special case without looking at the other Scriptures and ministry of angels that we have already mentioned.
"Christ paid the price for our spiritual blessings and access to heavenly things - angels included. Where I would be concerned about angelic revelation as being deceptive or as angels actually being demonic spirits, is where not-yet Christians claim angelic revelation while rejecting the cross of Christ. " Todd Bentley
I am not sure what Todd understands by the first phrase and what access we have to the angelic realms. Christ did die for us and indeed has, "Blessed us with every spiritual blessing" but nowhere that I am aware of does it give a clear promise that we all have access to angels.
We also need to take seriously what we read in 2 Corinthians 11:14 that Satan comes as an "angel of light" and so can pretend to be one thing on the outside and something else on the inside. I would agree that a practical experience of the Cross of Christ is indeed safety but just the fact that we believe in the Cross of Christ with our heads does not keep us safe and so it could be that someone can pay lip service to the cross and have false angelic visions. That does not in itself make it right or wrong, once again we would need to look at what the visitations lead to.
"Some people have even ventured to say that my visions and visitations are false. That's like telling someone who's just told you about a dream they had in their sleep that they didn't really dream it. In the case of my encounter with Paul the apostle, just as Paul didn't know if he was in his body or out of his body when he was taken into the third heaven, I don't know whether my encounter was in a vision or an actual encounter. I do know that it was not of the adversary. God had reason for this experience and for the revelation that transpired from it. These things I cannot refute. It's not that far out there when you consider that the apostle Peter beheld Jesus, Moses, and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration and was actually commissioned while in a visionary trance, to preach to the Gentiles (see Matt. 17:9, Acts 10:19). Some may not find my experience doctrinally sound, and liken it to speaking to the dead, and unbiblical, citing the apostle Paul's warnings in Galatians 1:8, and 2 Corinthians 11:14, of which I'm very aware. My accountability team and I, through careful examination, determined that this vision was not outside of God's realm. God had a purpose and a plan for the revelation He gave me and it all pointed to Christ." Todd Bentley
I want to make three points concerning the above paragraphs.
1. That Todd really believes he had these visions I have no doubt the question is where do they come from?
2. I do not believe that the Mount of Transfiguration can be used to confirm the conversation that Todd have with Paul. That involved Jesus being on earth and stepping into eternal realms and speaking with Moses and Elijah. Peter did not speak with them and indeed the message at the end was Jesus alone, not the conversation that they had.
3. We are not told by what means the dream was examined and determined as being from God. We also, as far as I know, have no knowledge of this team ever contradicting what Todd has said is from the Lord.
"Please examine the fruit before you pick apart the worker. People are being saved! Certainly this is common ground with every believer - our hearts should always be for the lost. Can we not come together and make this our mission, understanding that our theologies may be different but that we agree on this very important and vital commission. We serve the same God. God is the Father of all of us. We are His children. We are all in the same family. We are all running the same race but at different paces. The Word planted on good soil bears good fruit!" Todd Bentley
Yes indeed, God's word received into good soil will produce fruit. If those who come hear the message of salvation and respond they will be saved and we rejoice over that. However, just because this happens that does not mean we must accept everything that is happening through this worker. I would indeed want to say that I understand Todd's position and I agree that we should not 'pick apart' the worker. Several things have been said about Todd's pre salvation days that I do not think are relevant now. But what Todd proclaims to the nations as the 'Word of the Lord' and the 'Work of the Lord' we must check out. We do not automatically reject it because Todd has tattoos or because he is a charismatic but we reject it on the basis of whether it goes against the Word of God. Pull you head out of the sand folks, the man is not leading revival from God.GH
Thanks for your comments guys!
Clint, please read todays blog in response...
And GH. You are right we need to discern and test. And that it can't go against Scripture!!! Not a problem. Im not sure I agree with all your conclusions though. I think there may be few times you jump the gun... If you want to discuss more, feel free to email me!
reelbigjimmy@hotmail.com
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