What do we do with so called dodgey people who seem to get results in the Spiritual? Do we simply write them off and say everything they do ss demonic, do we make youtube clips demonstrating how trhey are wolves in sheeps clothing? or do we have a closer look at what they see as important and see what they believe and stand for?
William Booth, founder of The Salvation Army, was accused of all sorts of things especially when he brought out his book, "In Darkest England and the Way Out." Its been well documented how the press handled him. At that time as a reader you could have though a number of things about him but those who he had ministered to would have no doubt he was a man of God. There would also be those in his meetings who didnt percieve God at work in themselves and would say his ministry was a sham and emotionalism!
Why do I consistantly bring up people who the world sees as dodgey? Because I can see what God is doing in their lives and ministries. I like what Bill Johnson has to say about Todd Bentley and see it as a perfect example of what I am talking about...
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
How could you support _____?
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12 comments:
Support for those have shown to be doggy both theologically and ethically points toward a marked decline in professing Christians who think there is any connection between theological soundness and ethics, something Paul has a great to say about, “watch you life and doctrine closely” (1 Tim.4:12-16). The repeated call of Scripture is to live a life worthy of our calling, “whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” (1 Jn.2:6). It is a matter of faith that works, of truth in action, of godliness in working clothes. Go and have a close look at 2 Corinthians were Paul claims that in his ministry he had wronged no one, corrupted no one, exploited no one (7:2). These guys whom you wish to laud smell of manipulation, intrigue, and hidden agendas. Does God really bless those whose theology, ethics and integrity are as doggy as these guys? Give us a break! Such people are to put it in Paul’s words “false prophets, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising the, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness” (2 Cor.11:13-15). Paladin
How could you agree with and support such dodgy people, let along give them blog space.Integrity, consistency, sincerity, honesty, transparency, authenticity and reliability are Christian vitues that are indispensable qualities in Christian leaders.The tragedy is they are notably absent in these guys. If leadership is essentially a relationship of trust and credibility and congruity, again it is missing in these guys.By suggesting as you do that their dodginess doesn't really matter all that much is to condone and conspire with them in their dodginess. WJE
James, as you saying it is ok for they to be violence in the form of a physical assault and say this is of the Holy Spirit? Seems Tod is very much into the physical assault stuff. Johno
Have a look at these James -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW2kaRP3EtI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LJICxXnvlw&feature=related
Quoting part of Johnson's video, and my comments - "have you watched his with his wife" - he cheated on her and has now divorced her and married the woman with whom he had the affair.
- "have you seen how he treats his kids" - Bentley is now living in the United States, with his children living in Canada with his ex-wife. Kids need their father around them, so I see this a clear example of not treating his kids well.
- "used him in stunning miracles" - see the videos and realise that there is no proof of this at all.
Bentley in now in the process of being 'restored to ministry' by Rick Joyner. Bentley should be in Canada, with his children and trying to restore his first marriage. But that isn't happening, because there is a mistress to live with and money to take from desperate people in the United States.
Bentley, Hinn, Johnson etc. etc. will make whatever grandiose claims in order to bolster their ministry and take people's money. They lie and exaggerate, giving false hope to the most vulnerable people. They are evil men, yet people like you happily follow along with and support their 'ministries'.
hmmm, so you guys are saying we cant like good things about people if they have also done bad things? Interesting theology...
by the way jack, you still havent answered who you follow? im interested in hearing.
James,
I'd have to say that I agree with you. Yes these guys have done some things that have have been wrong, but do we completely write them off and ignore all they have done or all they can do in the future because of their mistakes? Our God is a God of redemption. We have all stuffed up at times. If you havn't stuffed up I challenge you to throw the first stone!
STW
What are good things they have done James? Because all I see is deception and lies. As to who I follow, the simple answer is I don't 'follow' anyone. I read, I listen, I investigate, I form an opinion. I am at a stage in life where I struggle with many aspects of Christianity, however there are a few things of which I am as close as I can be to 100% certain about - if what is displayed by the likes of Hinn & Bentley is true Christianity, then I want nothing to do with it. If the closed-minded fundamentalism and arrogance that I see displayed by the likes of you and your colleagues and leaders who delight in calling yourselves 'Primitive Salvationists' is true Christianity, then I want nothing to do with it. I want to continue to call myself a Christian, if than means I am a person that truly loves and cares for others, but if that aligns me with people like you, your colleagues and people like Hinn & Bentley, then I would prefer to be called anything but a Christian. That may sound harsh, but that's exactly how I feel.
Jack, I can hear that you are looking for truth and peace. I don't know where you live but maybe youd like to catch up for a coffee? Theres plenty of great cafes around here!
Id love to hear your story then share my heart with you. I know places of doubt can often be hard and lonely, but I also know God can use that to bring us to the truth and an even cloder walk with HIm. Let me know by email if you would like to catch up reelbigjimmy@hotmail.com
*closer not cloder!
STW - the problem is they have never repented of their wrong doings and continue to act as though they have done nothing wrong. James, it is not a case of liking or disliking- it whether you are condoning them and their actions by backing them and giving them blog space and basically promoting them. Like what Palidin and WJE have to say. Johno
Johno, Im pretty sure you're not God so how do you know what these guys are praying?
As for dumping people from aeverything we can think of becasue they have done something wrong... do you eat chocolate? You know most of it is made by salves? What about coffee? Same thing. Do you have a mobile phone? where were all the parts made and how many people were ripped off to make it? What about the oil and petrol for your car? Where did that come from and what sort of human rights have been violated for that?
My point is this, its not hard to take good and leave bad. For the above list we should try to buy as ethically as we can, but that doesnt change how tasty chocolate is does it?
So for people like hinn and bentley, they have impacted literally millions of lives and lead stacks and stacks of people to Christ! Thats good and I will celebrate that even though bentley has been divorced and even though hinn gets paid alot of money...
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